apprentice or not?

Let's see.....sweep the floor, take out trash, scrub the toilets, clean the counter tops, do any other
Bullshit jobs that some lazy a$$ doesn't want to do, share all your work for someone
To potentially steal it? All to learn how to tatto, probably from some idiot that can't
Draw a stick figure...nah....ill pass. I just don't get it....do you seriously think your mentor
Will really share his secrets? I'm a artist and have a few of my own and I don't care
If you come clean my house every day of the week...your not getting them.

[canvasyou]

Viper,
Most skilled professions require that the individual who wants to learn them goes to a vocational school. There are no real secrets in the tattoo industry any more. The information is available for sale in countless books and DVDs. You could consider these things tattoo secrets I guess. If you are an artist and you utilize your apprentices for labour and you are not teaching them anything then you are a pretty lame example of a mentor.
Tattoo apprenticeships are not really supposed to be slave labour. The reason so many of the old school artists would haze their apprentices, using them for excessive chores and things outside the shop was because tattoo was once a VERY guarded profession. The artists did not poses very much artistic skill, only technical knowledge. There is a big difference in tattooing. You should be an artist before you become a tattooist. If you are very secretive and guarded about your profession it is typically because you are worried that the apprentice is actually a better artist – and if he grasps the technical skills that you might have – then he might open his own shop or take clients from you (insecurity leads to secrecy).

The reason that I advocate an apprenticeship is not because I feel that you have to “earn your stripes” so to speak, but you can not learn all of the technical stuff simply from books and DVDs. You might get the gist of it – but you really need to see the hands on first person view of it. This can just as easily be done by paying an artist to tattoo your arms for 20 hours while you take notes mentally. I have had a few apprentices, and I am not an amazing tattoo artist by any means. I look at it as a symbol of success if my apprentice is better than me after 6 – 12 months of actual tattooing. I tried to take on apprentices who were already established artists and had a giant ability – they just needed to know the technical aspect.

That should be the mentality of the mentor who is training an apprentice. I am friends will all the individuals who (I like to think I helped) I have trained. I believe that says a lot about the way they apprenticed under me. Sure they were setting up my tattoo station for a long time, and broke down the station – an cleaned the bathrooms. I was lucky and I had a really good mentor myself – who never asked me to clean or break down anything... it was implied. I always had everything done before I was asked. This was because I was so eager to learn the trade and improve my own skills.

I have a degree in graphic design, which cost me around $50,000.00 – I have another degree in Information Science, which cost about the same. I could have just as easily worked for a graphic design studio and looked over a senior artist’s shoulder and done all the “bitch work” in the studio. Either way – you have to pay to learn. The apprenticeship is not meant to be degrading, it is a way for the artist to have hired help in the studio – the payment is information and education. If you are an apprentice and you are constantly being told to do things – then you are not a good apprentice. If you are a mentor and you are not sharing any “secrets” then you are not a good mentor.

You get what you put into this industry, and to me it is more important to share the information and make friends – than it is to belittle someone and make them my shop slave, running my personal errands. With that being said, any one of the individuals who at one point called themselves my apprentice – would gladly run to the store for me – or run personal errands (had I ever asked them to). That type of respect is earned, and it takes a certain level of life experience to respect the apprenticeship process and maturity to call yourself a mentor.

^^^^^^That was a great post^^^^^^^

I went to a tech school once for motorcycle mechanics. I learned more in 3 months under my "mentor" at the shop I worked at than I ever did in school. Am I going to get a tattoo apprenticeship? Nah...not my thing. But I'd agree that you can't underestimate the value of someone willing to share their experience with you...because experience is where it's at.

Mark

Viper,
Most skilled professions require that the individual who wants to learn them goes to a vocational school. There are no real secrets in the tattoo industry any more. The information is available for sale in countless books and DVDs. You could consider these things tattoo secrets I guess. If you are an artist and you utilize your apprentices for labour and you are not teaching them anything then you are a pretty lame example of a mentor.
Tattoo apprenticeships are not really supposed to be slave labour. The reason so many of the old school artists would haze their apprentices, using them for excessive chores and things outside the shop was because tattoo was once a VERY guarded profession. The artists did not poses very much artistic skill, only technical knowledge. There is a big difference in tattooing. You should be an artist before you become a tattooist. If you are very secretive and guarded about your profession it is typically because you are worried that the apprentice is actually a better artist – and if he grasps the technical skills that you might have – then he might open his own shop or take clients from you (insecurity leads to secrecy).

The reason that I advocate an apprenticeship is not because I feel that you have to “earn your stripes” so to speak, but you can not learn all of the technical stuff simply from books and DVDs. You might get the gist of it – but you really need to see the hands on first person view of it. This can just as easily be done by paying an artist to tattoo your arms for 20 hours while you take notes mentally. I have had a few apprentices, and I am not an amazing tattoo artist by any means. I look at it as a symbol of success if my apprentice is better than me after 6 – 12 months of actual tattooing. I tried to take on apprentices who were already established artists and had a giant ability – they just needed to know the technical aspect.

That should be the mentality of the mentor who is training an apprentice. I am friends will all the individuals who (I like to think I helped) I have trained. I believe that says a lot about the way they apprenticed under me. Sure they were setting up my tattoo station for a long time, and broke down the station – an cleaned the bathrooms. I was lucky and I had a really good mentor myself – who never asked me to clean or break down anything... it was implied. I always had everything done before I was asked. This was because I was so eager to learn the trade and improve my own skills.

I have a degree in graphic design, which cost me around $50,000.00 – I have another degree in Information Science, which cost about the same. I could have just as easily worked for a graphic design studio and looked over a senior artist’s shoulder and done all the “bitch work” in the studio. Either way – you have to pay to learn. The apprenticeship is not meant to be degrading, it is a way for the artist to have hired help in the studio – the payment is information and education. If you are an apprentice and you are constantly being told to do things – then you are not a good apprentice. If you are a mentor and you are not sharing any “secrets” then you are not a good mentor.

You get what you put into this industry, and to me it is more important to share the information and make friends – than it is to belittle someone and make them my shop slave, running my personal errands. With that being said, any one of the individuals who at one point called themselves my apprentice – would gladly run to the store for me – or run personal errands (had I ever asked them to). That type of respect is earned, and it takes a certain level of life experience to respect the apprenticeship process and maturity to call yourself a mentor.

I agree with that 100% in terms of the attitude a mentor should take with their apprentice. The only problem, is when someone goes into a studio and asks to become an apprentice, they get shown the door. Asking the artist who does all your work and you get on well with if you can mentor under them could wind up costing you that working friendship, and set you looking for a new artist just to get more work done, let alone consider asking to apprentice... It really is not worth the risk of offending them... If someone can get an apprenticeship, then great. Great that they are lucky enough to be in the situation to do so. For everyone else though, it's a vicious circle of:

Scenario A:
Guy "Can I apprentice under you?
Artist "Have you any experience?"
Guy "I've never held a machine before..."
Artist "Come back when you have a portfolio..."
Guy "How do I get more experience and a portfolio when no-one will teach me?"

Scenario B:
Guy "Can I apprentice under you?
Artist "Have you any experience?"
Guy "Yeah, I've done a few tattoos on myself and some of my friends..."
Artist "Get the fuck outta my studio, you scratcher scum, I'm gonna break your thumbs before you give someone AIDS!!!"
Guy

[canvasyou]

Your portfolio that you bring to the tattoo shop - when trying to become an apprentice - should not include tattoos. You should have a portfolio of art work. You should not have experience to become an apprentice.

It is not advised that you show your "scratcher" work to a professional shop.

It is hard to get an apprenticeship - i am not arguing that.
I was also not stating that an apprenticeship is the only way to learn to tattoo.

I was simply implying that you will excel fast as an apprentice - you will save yourself a lot of time. You will also get feedback to questions and your work will rapidly progress.

I was also implying that if you are a mentor you should treat those who apprentice under you with respect.

You want to learn to tattoo - if you want to learn bad enough, you might have to put up with some Bull Shit.
That’s the way it is in this industry...for now anyway.

I see things changing though - keep an eye on things.
If you really want to be an apprentice... you have to get a solid portfolio - and you have to get tattooed by an artist you like - over and over
build a relationship with him or her - let them know you are not a douche bag. Let them know you are serious about it.

This is also like "paying" to learn. Most artists will not complain if you ask a 100 questions - if you are a "regular" client.... think about that.
You can learn to tattoo - and get some quality sleeves at the same time - without taking out the trash..

But if you walk in expecting to get the keys to the castle without putting in some type of dues - then you are disillusioned.

A little background information on myself....
Been involved in some form of art for most of my life, I am now 45. I studied art in college, i have painted in all formats such as acrylic, oils, watercolor, you name it, the ONLY medium i hadnt done was tattoo. I have done Graphic illustration/design and won a few contests in doing so, recently was $500.00 from a very prominent advertiser. Never once took a class in Graphics but have designed logos, art works, and other graphic illustrations, and sold them...I studied it, learned all i could then applied some common sense! I use Adobe CS5, i am proficient in Photoshop as well as illustrator. I have sold many painting in galleries and was a top seller for a gallery in New Orleans.

Would i take a portfolio to a tattoo shop, probably not....its just not my style. Im not saying i am right or wrong but its not for me. I have really no desire to apprentice under an artist that i am likely better at, and I dont say that as bragging its just the truth.

I was offered on more than one occassion to actually become an apprentice and work at a shop and have turned it down, my schedule just wont allow for it at the present time. Bare in mind this shop was not interested in my scrubbing toilets to learn how to tattoo, but more interested in the talent i could potentially bring to the shop.

I also, as crazy as this my sound am not interested in getting covered in tattoo's just to become an apprentice or to "Ask Questions". When i get a tattoo its because there is a reason behind it, not just to be able to build a report with the shop.

If someone came to me and ask me to be a Graphic Illustration apprentice, I would have to think long and hard about it. They would have to have artistic ability, be able to use and understand a computer, and have a bit of common sense, and a quick learner. Would I ask or imply they clean my floor, or take out my trash? Certainly not, why on Earth would i even think that would be their job just because they are trying to learn graphics? I can understand station setup but cleaning the bathroom? Really...sorry....not my cup of noodles!!! Guess I need to stop watching NY INK...LOL!!!!

anyhow....some good information in the post and THANK YOU to all that responded. I wasnt really trying to start a debate but was looking for some general opinins as to how folks felt about the whole "apprenticeship". My last
comment: guarded Secrets...I got a few tricks I use in Graphics, good luck getting those out of me. I would think the same to apply to tattooing.

CANVASYOU: excellent comments, glad to hear you dont belittle your apprentices...I admire you for that.!


viper

Your portfolio that you bring to the tattoo shop - when trying to become an apprentice - should not include tattoos. You should have a portfolio of art work. You should not have experience to become an apprentice.

It is not advised that you show your "scratcher" work to a professional shop.

Interesting perspective... A former friend took his scratcher work to a professional studio, and that was what made the artist allow him to work there, rather than paying to apprentice under him. I think if someone is already tattooing (flesh, not practice materials) then there is very little an apprenticeship can actually teach them, other than maybe suggesting different techniques, or maybe better machine set up (if the person hasn't yet had the stones to take their machine apart and re-build it...)

It is hard to get an apprenticeship - i am not arguing that.
I was also not stating that an apprenticeship is the only way to learn to tattoo.

I was simply implying that you will excel fast as an apprentice - you will save yourself a lot of time. You will also get feedback to questions and your work will rapidly progress.

I was also implying that if you are a mentor you should treat those who apprentice under you with respect.

You want to learn to tattoo - if you want to learn bad enough, you might have to put up with some Bull Shit.
That’s the way it is in this industry...for now anyway.

There's never a need to put up with bullshit. If someone feels the need to haze or use their apprentice for 'out of shop chores', then that isn't a mentor, that is a bully on an ego trip, and I was agreeing with your point about such behaviour. How much tolerance a person might have for being asked to wax the car or clean the pool or get the dry cleaning, has no correlation to how dedicated someone is to learning how to tattoo. If you can find Jodie Marsh: Tattoo Apprentice on YouTube, this one-off show shows very clearly the difference between an artist who was willing to teach, and someone who was just being a jackass for the sake of it, then trying to cover it up under the guise of 'cross contamination' concerns. Yes, apprenticing in a studio will allow easier access to frequent clients and someone on hand to ask questions to/get advice from, but let's be honest here, tattooing is not rocket science, nor is it brain surgery. I've seen many artists trying to defend apprenticeships by pointing out doctor's and surgeons need to have years of training, but the fact is, while tattooing will leave a relatively permanent mark on the skin, it is nowhere near as invasive or drastic as surgery, and it is not (under normal circumstances) life-threatening.

I see things changing though - keep an eye on things.
If you really want to be an apprentice... you have to get a solid portfolio - and you have to get tattooed by an artist you like - over and over
build a relationship with him or her - let them know you are not a douche bag. Let them know you are serious about it.

This is also like "paying" to learn. Most artists will not complain if you ask a 100 questions - if you are a "regular" client.... think about that.
You can learn to tattoo - and get some quality sleeves at the same time - without taking out the trash..

But if you walk in expecting to get the keys to the castle without putting in some type of dues - then you are disillusioned.

Personally, I would be happy to teach someone I had never met before, if they were genuinely interested and willing to learn. I think the real issue, is wether the artist is willing to teach someone who might then become a threat to their business. If they're good, they won't lose clients even when their apprentice starts tattooing

I also, as crazy as this my sound am not interested in getting covered in tattoo's just to become an apprentice or to "Ask Questions". When i get a tattoo its because there is a reason behind it, not just to be able to build a report with the shop.

Precisely. Any work I have done is significant, none of it is random, and none of it deserves to be 'tainted' by the side-intent of acquiring the artist's knowledge, just the original reason for wanting to get the tattoo

I also, as crazy as this my sound am not interested in getting covered in tattoo's just to become an apprentice or to "Ask Questions". When i get a tattoo its because there is a reason behind it, not just to be able to build a report with the shop.

Precisely. Any work I have done is significant, none of it is random, and none of it deserves to be 'tainted' by the side-intent of acquiring the artist's knowledge, just the original reason for wanting to get the tattoo

Kitchenwizard: I think if someone is already tattooing (flesh, not practice materials) then there is very little an apprenticeship can actually teach them, other than maybe suggesting different techniques, or maybe better machine set up (if the person hasn't yet had the stones to take their machine apart and re-build it...)



I agree 1000%.....and actually, I would like to make a few "suggestions" to some of these Professional shops.